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Posted on 2007.04.16 at 22:00


ehowton at 2007-07-12 19:52 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Women and bad boys

Anyway... you have your right to compare us "men" as you wish. But I prefer that you realize that it is not age that brings us to give you our take on life... it is from "worldly" experience. Not so many men of our age have it in such great quantities. I'm not saying we are the wise men from The East Orient, but they too traveled far and were called wise men. So think on that.

I tell you sir, this makes perfect sense to me and I've often thought the same thing myself. But then again, I wondered if that was just selfishness or pride speaking. For example, look at drax0r Has never left the states, and only left Texas once. Yet he's so well read, it seems to make up for lack of worldly experience.

Or does it? He and I have often debated the aspects of each. Very interesting you should bring this up and unknowingly defend my point of view.
leonardii at 2007-07-13 00:51 (UTC) (Link)

Experience part I

Well, with everything considered - it would be a vicious debate over which would bring more experience, intelligence, and overall wisdom to a man - worldliness, or being well-read. Both bring a man knowledge, both bring a sense of experience - one seen (and doing things) through his personal set of eyes and travels, and the other just happens to see and "experience" the world through the eyes and words of another.

Of course, in the case such as you and I - we have done both. Been around, seen some funky stuff, seen great works, seen some real poverty and squalor and what the world has to offer in extreme beauty and extreme ugliness. At the same time, I know we both are avid readers, and have poured in vast words into the many crinkles of our grey matter that floats every so gracefully upon our neck and shoulders. Plus, there is a quote that is so great:

“Books are the compasses and telescopes and sextants and charts which other men have prepared to help us navigate the dangerous seas of human life.”
--Jesse Lee Bennett

So, having done both - I would have to say that there is just nothing in the world that compensates for seeing and doing for yourself what others have only written about. The majesty of the Kremlin walls I have seen in film, books, and magazines. However - standing next to the wall - they are in all the trueness of the word - awesome. Very large, very huge, very majestic. I could never imagine from what I have seen before I ever went to Moscow - but after having seen those red walls in countless films and pictures, the debate ends when you stand amongst them. Even if you never read a single word about their history, or if you never saw a picture of them in your life - just having been there, it changes a man. It feels him with more than knowledge and experience. You also have a true sensation of the essence of the moment. Yes, you can describe that feeling. But one will *never* feel it just by reading your description nor mine... even if both were written in the most perfect detail. I know books and words can move you, they can frighten you, and they can make you laugh heartily. But, being on a spot of history is truly an exciting thrill and you just can't put it into words for others.

And the emotion I felt walking down the streets in Moscow. Seeing the exceedingly rich juxtaposed against mangled and disfigured war veterans who are obviously living in abject poverty also creates a sensation that cannot be put into words. Maybe if I described everything, and you were sensitive enough and my words were eloquent enough... perhaps you would shed a tear. But my tears were the kind from real experience from horror at witnessing men of war, anger at the negligence of such a powerful European state simply throwing away their own heroes to try and survive in the bitter cold out on the street, and jubilation that I live in a powerful state that pays me for my wounds and cares for me in a hospital that is actually quite decent. Much more decent than what can be expected to just survive in the cold. Again - cold, another experience you can write tomes about - but unless you've been in the highest mountain peaks of Germany, freezing your gonads off and just simply bearing such suffering without shelter except a make shift lean to kind of a tent and just a sleeping bag to protect you from the cold... that you get to sleep in for only about 3 hours in a 24 hour period.

ehowton at 2007-07-13 01:19 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Experience part I

I understand exactly what you mean. My most recent experience with what you described was at the Oklahoma Bombing Memorial. I knew there had been a bombing - I was unaffected. I knew they'd erected a memorial - I was unaffected. But when I stood there, in the midst of it, years later; I was overcome with emotion that to this day I cannot describe.
leonardii at 2007-07-13 04:04 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Experience part I

Yes, yes! That's it exactly!

It's no secret that I'm a huge fan of history. Civil War history is especially one of my most favorite interests. I have read volumes regarding the subject.

However - I actually saw the area where one of the battles took place (not Gettysburg, but close by), I gazed across the field that once held thousands of men killing each other and the blood was so deep that the once dry field became as deep and wet as a marsh.

I finally found myself on a part of history, a piece of historical land that was as sacred and hallowed as any basilica.

And even though there were no monuments to see, no headstones, no memorials of any kind - I was still just standing in complete awe and felt deep respect for the now quiet field.

In the Civil War alone, more Americans died than all those who have given their lives in all of our other wars combined.

Like you - just being in such a place, I cannot truly describe my feelings with enough words in the right places to justify my own senses.
leonardii at 2007-07-13 00:52 (UTC) (Link)

Experience part II

I ask you sir, how can you put these experiences into words that will give another man the same feelings? I've just written about what I've seen and done - but unless you've done the same (or similar), how can we possibly truly compare notes? You can't.

There is nothing wrong with being wise and experience through knowledge gained by the writings and descriptions of others. But now when I see documentaries of soldiers in the past, freezing and dieing in the cold. I truly understand why. Because the cold will surely kill you!!!

Regardless - I just enjoy men who gain intelligence, experience, and wisdom any way they can.

And if any argument should arise, it's not that I don't respect those who have never seen nor done the things that I have - but I cannot condone any "empathy" and very little sympathy from them... because seeing and doing are leagues apart in difference than simply reading and just knowing.

I think your point of view, as well as mine would be shared by men who have also traveled the globe.

Is there a substitute for the real thing? Well, try as you like - but for sex, one would have to agree that just a little bit of doing can far better give a man knowledge, experience, and wisdom than if he just spent his time reading the Kama Sutra all day long! :)

Apply that principle example to some other things in the world - and perhaps far more people will vote for your side of the debate. :)
ehowton at 2007-07-13 01:10 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Experience part II

Is there a substitute for the real thing? Well, try as you like - but for sex, one would have to agree that just a little bit of doing can far better give a man knowledge, experience, and wisdom than if he just spent his time reading the Kama Sutra all day long! :)
Brilliantly stated.
leonardii at 2007-07-13 03:42 (UTC) (Link)

Re: Experience part II

Why thank you.

Sex is a wonderful tool for analogies. It's also just wonderful. :)
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