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Eric

Recompense

Posted on 2008.04.16 at 09:30

Comments:


Melancthe the Woe, So-Called
melancthe at 2008-04-16 14:49 (UTC) (Link)
It's not that schpydurx and I can't get along, it's that I'm frequently saddened by his behaviour towards other people. I don't understand why he feels the need to behave the way he does towards others.

The latest drama, for instance. He screwed up: accused an innocent person (innocent of that particular crime, at any rate), and likely embarrassed her terribly. I just wanted to know why he couldn't say, "Oh shit, I messed up! I'm really sorry!", and actually make amends instead of double-speak apologies and blaming of other people. That was what I found so odd: I've normally noticed that schpydurx is good at admitting culpability, and this seemed so out of character for him.

But when I pushed him on this (with a little too much snark, it would seem) - after all, he hadn't defriended me, although I'd defriended him for being annoying a couple of months ago - he got angry and defensive.

I'm a horrible, awful person at times, and I freely confess it. Hell, I even like being horrible and awful. But injustice bothers me more than I like to admit. And this was injustice. Whatever my flaws (and I have many), I will always stand up to fight against what I perceive as unfair treatment.

Please, allow this post to be that discussion place. Let's work on building up, rather than tearing down.

Your wish is my command, good sir.
Melancthe the Woe, So-Called
melancthe at 2008-04-16 14:50 (UTC) (Link)
Oh, thank you for calling me witty and smart. ;)
ehowton
ehowton at 2008-04-16 15:15 (UTC) (Link)
I paint what I see, child.
ehowton
ehowton at 2008-04-16 15:04 (UTC) (Link)
Thank you for taking this important first step. While its easy to see the flaws of others (in this case, the lack of a proper apology) I can see that this action, even though it wasn't against you, hurt terribly.

With someone as passionate as schpydurx, the right course of action always comes in time - usually not immediately. Passionate people require a, "cooling-off" period as they get so fired up. If they didn't, the passion would die on the vine.

I feel certain that he'll do the right thing, when he's ready. And we can be thankful that though at times hot-headed, that his heart is always in the right place.
Melancthe the Woe, So-Called
melancthe at 2008-04-16 15:23 (UTC) (Link)
I can understand the cooling-off period, certainly, and I agree with many of the points you've raised.

However, my issue is with the fact that his actions hurt someone else (the person he accused) unnecessarily, and thus needing such a cooling-off period can't be a valid excuse. It's one thing to do something stupid that doesn't have such serious consequences (after all, we all do stupid things and we all screw up frequently) but once someone's actions start harming others - and I don't see how publicly accusing someone of hacking your account can't be considered harming someone - a more serious apology, not a half-hearted pseudo-apology, is needed, and needed urgently.

I know his heart is in the right place, and I know he'll do the right thing eventually, because he's a decent person at heart, but "eventually" is not good enough. Part of being an adult is taking responsibility for your own actions, after all, and admitting your faults and making restitution to those you've wronged. Now, not later.

And no, the bad blood between schpydurx and myself isn't just as a result of this particular little drama, but the drama itself conveniently serves to illustrate some of my concerns: in essence, that I disapprove of schpydurx's treatment of others.
ehowton
ehowton at 2008-04-16 16:14 (UTC) (Link)
The closer we are to a situation, the more personally we take it.

And while I'm trying to foster an environment of cooperation here, I understand that sometimes this means first bearing one's soul.

One step at a time...One step at a time.



Melancthe the Woe, So-Called
melancthe at 2008-04-16 16:52 (UTC) (Link)
Your Diplomacy rolls are impressive today. Have you been putting extra points into Charisma?
Tomas Gallucci
schpydurx at 2008-04-18 03:41 (UTC) (Link)
It's not that schpydurx and I can't get along
We haven't gotten along for quite some time.

t's that I'm frequently saddened by his behaviour towards other people.
What's it to you? If I'm not doing those things that you hate to you, why should you care? It's between me and that other person.

He screwed up: accused an innocent person (innocent of that particular crime, at any rate)
Nice choice of words, Slick. ;)

just wanted to know why he couldn't say, "Oh shit, I messed up! I'm really sorry!"
That's simple. I did admit to the mistake, but I'm not in the least bit sorry for what I have done.

ehowton, a great SysAdmin who, like myself, has experience with frozen threads warned me that my account had been hacked. He was rather hot under the collar and swore to "rip her a new asshole".

My reaction was based on the concept that my privacy had been invaded because she had used my password. This was reinforced by the fact that in both ehowton and I's previous experience with frozen comments, once frozen they couldn't be delete except by the blog owner.

I therefore wanted to make a statement on my blog about my view of invasion of privacy. This led to being defriended.

In my little circle of blogging friends, it is considered censorship, disrespectful and on par with high treason to delete a comment in the middle of a thread to erase the hateful words.


I've normally noticed that schpydurx is good at admitting culpability, and this seemed so out of character for him.
I hope that these words which I have uttered shed some light on the subject. I have relegated the objectionable material to a list of select few eyes, which, at the time of this writing, excludes you.
Melancthe the Woe, So-Called
melancthe at 2008-04-18 06:09 (UTC) (Link)
What's it to you? If I'm not doing those things that you hate to you, why should you care? It's between me and that other person.

Because you chose to conduct your business in a place where I could see it. You're always quick to tell the other person that she shouldn't make personally revealing comments on public posts; the same applies to you. And the reason why I'd care: well, it's the reason that makes us so different. I don't like to see people bullied, and bullying was precisely what you did. Which is why I'll stand up for the victim regardless of my thoughts on her personally.

My reaction was based on the concept that my privacy had been invaded because she had used my password. This was reinforced by the fact that in both ehowton and I's previous experience with frozen comments, once frozen they couldn't be delete except by the blog owner.

Then your research was poor. LJ has NEVER not allowed comments to be deleted, even from frozen threads. LJ's position on comment ownership is extremely clear, and has been for a very long time: that the person who made the original comment or post is the owner of those words, rather than the ownership being transferred to the owner of the journal or community in which they were made, and thus should never be prevented from deleting them. You claim that your mistake was made because this was changed. I disagree - this has never been the case, and your "mistake" was made because of an incorrect assumption in the first place.

If you wish to argue this particular point, I'd strongly suggest you find proof (from an official LJ source) to support your claim of it being changed. I can find absolutely no records to suggest it has ever been otherwise.

I therefore wanted to make a statement on my blog about my view of invasion of privacy.

Making a statement about an invasion of privacy is one thing, but accusing someone of the crime of hacking into your journal, and posting chat transcripts with someone's real name attached are not the same thing. Can you not see the difference?

In my little circle of blogging friends, it is considered censorship, disrespectful and on par with high treason to delete a comment in the middle of a thread to erase the hateful words.

I agree completely here. However, in the circles in which I move, it is also considered disrespectful ... nay, vile! ... to re-post conversations and discussions that were held privately, especially with the other person's name attached. I'd consider that infinitely worse than deleting comments, as awful as that may be; your mileage may, of course, vary. Does everyone on your f-list need to worry about you re-posting f-locked material and/or AIM transcripts? Judging from your behaviour towards this former friend of yours (behaviour which was triggered by a likely-incorrect assumption in the first place), I'd say that they should well be worried.

I hope that these words which I have uttered shed some light on the subject. I have relegated the objectionable material to a list of select few eyes, which, at the time of this writing, excludes you.

From your attitude towards your former friends and the confidentiality you had shared with them, I would hope it would exclude me for a long, long time.
ehowton
ehowton at 2008-04-18 12:42 (UTC) (Link)
I therefore wanted to make a statement on my blog about my view of invasion of privacy. This led to being defriended.
I like how you tried to throw me under the bus with you. As if, somehow, my doing it too somehow stopped you from being immature.

An allegorical story and the reposting of private AIM session (with names attached!!!) are two very different beasts.

I'm surprised you still don't differentiate between the two. And seeing how everyone else I interact with does...how to you think you appear in their eyes?

That's a rhetorical question dude, please don't attempt to answer. Thanks.
Tomas Gallucci
schpydurx at 2008-04-18 04:09 (UTC) (Link)
But when I pushed him on this (with a little too much snark, it would seem) - after all, he hadn't defriended me, although I'd defriended him for being annoying a couple of months ago - he got angry and defensive.
It was over the top and out of character, even for you. I thought you had truly went psycho.

I'm a horrible, awful person at times, and I freely confess it. Hell, I even like being horrible and awful.
This is called passion. It's ok to be evil...sometimes.

But injustice bothers me more than I like to admit. And this was injustice. Whatever my flaws (and I have many), I will always stand up to fight against what I perceive as unfair treatment.
This is yet again an example of your passion.

I am very happy that you stand up for what you believe in and will fight for it, even if it means a fight-to-the-death. This is one of your most redeeming features, one that makes me feel very warm inside when I think about you. Please, for the love of God, do not ever change this way about you. Just pick and choose your battles wisely.

But by the same tolken, I've made my mind up on the issue that sparked this whole debacle in the first place. I have explained my position on the matter and will not waiver from it. If this is to be the straw that breaks the camel's back between you and I, so be it. If that's what's written, that's what's written.

We've now played ehowton's little game and he's had his amusement. It is time to make our decisions. I await your riposte.
Melancthe the Woe, So-Called
melancthe at 2008-04-18 06:23 (UTC) (Link)
It was over the top and out of character, even for you. I thought you had truly went psycho.

You must be joking. You thought my remarks there were worse than previous comments I'd made to you? Although, that said, I do apologise for calling you a "spreading red stain on the white dress of humanity", which was excessively rude, despite it being what I was thinking at the time.

Just pick and choose your battles wisely.

I do indeed pick and choose my battles wisely. Someone being hated by a group of others, the same way the victim of your accusations is disliked by many reading this very journal, doesn't entitle them to less justice and less defence than anyone else. In fact, in some ways, such people need my words more, for who shall speak for the voiceless if not someone who would fight injustice?

I don't need to like someone to dislike what I see done to them. And your brand of bullying will always bring you into conflict with people like me.

But by the same tolken, I've made my mind up on the issue that sparked this whole debacle in the first place. I have explained my position on the matter and will not waiver from it. If this is to be the straw that breaks the camel's back between you and I, so be it. If that's what's written, that's what's written.

As you wish. You've played your cards and I've played mine. I shall not waver from my own committment to what I perceive as the righting of a wrong.

We've now played ehowton's little game and he's had his amusement. It is time to make our decisions. I await your riposte.

The great puppet master is no doubt amused, as he well should be, for his work has been fine.

I think we've both made our decisions; there is no middle ground that can be found. However, I would suggest that we both, in the interests of not causing uproar on ehowton's journal, try to remain polite when we encounter each other on here. I will endeavour to refrain from snide remarks, and I hope you shall do the same.
ehowton
ehowton at 2008-04-18 13:13 (UTC) (Link)
In fact, in some ways, such people need my words more, for who shall speak for the voiceless if not someone who would fight injustice?

I can hear the Galaxy Quest theme playing through my head!

"As long as there is injustice, whenever a Targathian baby cries out, wherever a distress signal sounds among the stars, we'll be there. This fine ship, this fine crew."
ehowton
ehowton at 2008-04-18 13:17 (UTC) (Link)
We've now played ehowton's little game and he's had his amusement. It is time to make our decisions. I await your riposte.

Please don't make it sound as if you're so easily manipulated.

People will think you weak.
Tomas Gallucci
schpydurx at 2008-04-18 13:29 (UTC) (Link)
You twisted my words, sir!

Now I am supposed to be many things which are not complimentary. I am supposed to be capricious. I have been called a playboy. I've even been called an eccentric, but I do not believe that i have the reputation of being a liar.

Now Mr. Howton, you can subpoena me, you can arrest me, you can even claim I've folded up and taken a run-out powder, but I've just about had enough of this nonsense.
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